Great Job on re-dressing the previous feature on the 'death of arcade' - I know how hard it can be to be constructive after so much criticism, thank you for looking at the comments made and coming back with a informative and a great piece that gets close to the rebirth of arcade.
All the best, and lets hope ON Network thinks its worth covering the subject in more depth.
Kevin Williams
KWP Limited
(Owners of 'The Stinger Report' - leading amusement trade e-newsletter)
Well jgusw3, every arcade forum and fan site has been full of corrections and contradictions - I am sure your not that interested to wade through so why not go to this excellent collection of comments - http://arcadeheroes.com/2007/08/17/death-of-the-arcade-being-greatly-exaggerated/
Interesting observations Splatterfan1988.
I have a little more background on this whole sorry project.
I have just read the 08/09/07 press announcement for the Play Value series (ON Networks Introduces Play Value: A Virtual Primer on the History & Relevance of Video Games), and it runs the original story before Mr. Blacks reversal. One piece of information garnered is the name of the cast and their credits:
"...Indeed, the program’s cast list reads like a who’s who of the gaming business: Libe Goad, AOL Games Programming Director; T.J. Allard, Video Game Designer; Dan Ackerman, CNET Editor; Jeff Rubin, Collegehumor.com Managing Editor, Josh Shabtai, New Media Specialist at Ketchum PR and Shandi Sullivan, America’s Next Top Model finalist and popular New York City DJ."
Well if thats a 'who's who' color me stupid and I think the word 'primer' will come back to haunt all involved. Also the press release did not mention 'Return of the Arcades' episode, favoring to build-up the death of arcade angle. This is very interesting and begs more questions. We really need to talk Mr. Black.
Mr. Black,
I am coming to these posts in reverse as I am in the middle of a feature and coming back to the forum when I suffer a mental block.
My email is- "editor (at) thestingerreport (dot) com"
-Please lets talk.
All the best,
Kevin Williams
KWP (Owners of The Stinger Report)
Dear Eugeneleyritz,
I agree lets keep this on even terms.
I agree that video amusement is a niche – but a niche of the much large AMUSEMENT industry. I actually work in the Out-of-Home interactive entertainment company that includes amusement, but also interactive attractions (Star Tours 2.0, etc), hospitality (Golden Tee, etc) and Serious Gaming.
The Play Value research team had targeted amusement and said it was dead. Now we hear the Director/Producer meant - not dead, but returning - not Worldwide, but in America, - and now reports that in 9 episodes time there will be a video that contradicts all of what his presenters said at the end of this video?
Though ON Networks must be loving this publicity, I bet they are smarting from the climb down (and the removal of the video off most web sites bar theirs) – seems my first observation below was proven correct!
All the best,
Kevin Williams
KWP (Owners of The Stinger Report)
Dear Jeremiah Black, Director/Producer of Play Value,
Thank you for coming to the forum to address the growing criticism of the ‘Death of Arcades’. Though I greatly appreciate the explanation I have to say that the creation of the first in the episode of videos has laid you bare for a lot of complaint beyond just what toy left out!
I understand the explanation of the limited time available, but some of the comments were fatuous and wrong no matter what you say you will do in the coming ‘Return of Arcades’ – how are you going to redress incorrect statements?
Just some basic corrections to your comments – you have to be very careful how you calculate our industries ‘glory days’, if you mean 1984-5 then we are at sales and business currently of 15% reduction, if you mean 1990-1 we are 20% (please be careful of using statistical date – The Stinger Report depends on actual financial postings of the main factories to calculate so avoiding fatuous reporting [a good example is how most consumer media have forgotten mention that Sega and Namco sales in consumer is down, but amusement and operation is up!])
I am surprised that you cut all the stuff about Golden Tee and the bounce back of American gaming from first video but then managed to keep in some really stupid stuff like “…arcade games are only in some venues as nostalgic pieces?!” I have to say Mr. Black, I find it hard that this last episode really existed. Having worked on TV before I know that in the end the director of the production is the responsibility for shaping, while the Producer sets the tone what is produced and you must have seen you had compiled an attack rather than an argument for our future industry? (having these two rolls in one person may explain the collision in direction). I can see why there is a rush to promise an alternative video, but the damage in your researcher’s credibility has been done.
Finally, I have to say that I feel that the coming Return of Arcade piece will have to work VERY hard to address the serious concern in the credibility of Play Value – I really hope you have got some industry input into the work. I also wonder how much of this next video is really in the can – you mention a number of times ‘...will be...’ includes in the Return video. I have to wonder if our pressure over your first episode is forcing you to create a back-tracking piece (and supplying free research in the bargain!) Hearing the number of caveats used regarding the first efforts fuels this thought – I just hope you get some authoritarian representation and look at possibly changing some of your presenters to address the appalling situation your team has got Play Value and ON Networks into (also if you use our information please attribute it)!
Oh and in retrospect… yes you should have!
Let’s be frank I work in the industry and will not have the time to wait 12 or even 9 episodes to see you address those mistake. What will happen is that people will see this as a divisive way to force people to endure your presenters – and I guess that when we see the 12 episode and find glaring errors we will be told, “…oh its too late to address those comments – we promise to address them when we do the next 12!” though the question would be if you get to do another series!
Please email me directly if you want to discuss this further, I would love to get a better idea how this situation was created as our e-news service ‘The Stinger Report’ is considering following this debacle in a feature.
All the best,
Kevin Williams
KWP (Owners of the Stinger Report)
I would have thought so too doodah408 but I have been told that the research was done by someone else "with arcade knowledge"!!? Sounds like buck passing to me but I just want ON Networks to let me know if they are standing by the Play Value team or if they are going to pull the video and distance themselves from a flawed piece of work as some site have?
(Having not received a reply to our email we have posed on the forum)
Dear ON Networks,
I would imagine that you have received a mountain of email regarding your latest video. As a member of the international amusement industry (and the Out-of-Home interactive entertainment sector), as well as a prolific writer on the amusement scene, I had to comment on your flawed creation - Play Value “The Death of Arcades”
I will avoid a litany of item by item criticism that I am sure has already been undertaken by a number of web based reviewers, but will just focus on the critically ill judged product and research values of this production. If this is the quality of other projects supplied by the Play Value crew, then you have a serious problem on your hands.
The amusement industry is calculated to have generated roughly $6.3billion last year globally, and has seen incredible business over the last few years – granted a depression hit in 1997 – the industry has grown from that point and has taken on a status where Electronic Arts, UbiSoft, Activision, Valve and Nintendo have worked on projects recently to release in amusement.
The market has such players as Sega (recently announcing financial figures showing a growth on amusement business surpassing console business), Namco (recently merged with Bandai, and also reporting increased revenue in AM business), and Taito (having also merged recently – with Square, and again increased amusement business, oh and launched a arcade version of Half Life 2). Another of the Japanese leading manufacturers Konami just released an arcade version of their million selling Silent Hill consumer title, to support the super success of their BEMANI genre of titles.
Before your ‘experts’ claim this is just a Japanese phenomenon we need to look at companies such as Global VR that has licensing agreements with Electronic Arts and UbiSoft to release amusement versions of their games. Or we can look at legendary arcade creator Eugene Jarvis and his successful new company Raw Thrills and their movie license driver success ‘The Fast and the Furious’. We can also look at other amusement releases on the international scene that sees arcades played in nearly every movie theatre and bowling complex, and the birth of a million dollar Family Entertainment Centre market. The success also has moved to the bars, with the Golden Tee and Big Buck Hunter sports bar tournament gaming scene that surpasses current Xbox LIVE Arcade prize levels. All sadly overlooked by your teams’ research.
The importance of arcade with the players was also tragically and incompetently missed by your ‘experts’ – total ignorance of the massively important current contribution that ‘BEMANI’ via ‘BeatMania’ and ‘Dance Dance Revolution’ travelling from arcade to home. It is socially irresponsible to miss this that it makes me wonder if your gathered brains trust of researchers were not really up to the job, or just out of their depth to cover this subject (or worse).
Glib comments about inability to play Sports Games in Aacade?!?!, or the totally wrong observation on what the Neo Geo failings were capped by the final statement that the only arcade machines in operation were retro museum pieces left for nostalgic purposes only. The money that Family Entertainment centre operators such as Chuck E.Cheese, Dave & Busters and Palace Entertainment have seen in recent years puts a lie to your ‘experts’ commentary, let alone the majority of the premise that they built their argument on.
I think that your executive board should consider the ramifications of the Play Value piece. Though it will soon be forgotten, it would be a great opportunity to set the record straight about the health of the amusement sector. As players throw record breaking amounts into cashboxes for the latest ‘Virtua Fighter 5’, ‘Tekken 6’ and ‘Initial D 4’ it is important to actually report the facts of a market in transition rather than create a hotchpotch of vagaries, falsehood and pure incorrect statements. I for one who am proud of our industry would love to help.
You will notice that I have cc’ed this email to the leading trade publications in America and Europe linked to the amusement sector. I have also supplied the head of the American Amusement Machine Association a copy of this mail – and I am proposing to pass on this email to the industry trade e-Newsletter The Stinger Report towards writing a feature on this ‘interesting’ commentary.
Just before your ‘experts’ attempt to deride my credential to criticize their work – I am not only a guest feature writer for the trade publications ‘RePlay’, ‘Vending Times’, ‘Tourist Attraction and Parks’, and ‘EuroSlot’ along with arcade feature contributor to the web site SPOnG.com and founder of the amusement e-news service The Stinger Report. I have been in amusement since 1985 and am an ex-Imagineer for Walt Disney, with other extensive jobs in development, manufacturer and sales in Public Space gaming; just for the record.
Finally, my experience is that if ‘you don’t know something – ask someone who dose!’ I think it was very short sighted both to call dead an industry that is clearly not, and to use individuals that along with using the word ‘basically’ way too often, showed a limitation of experience or knowledge that will hold the Play Vale series and the ON Network up for derision across the web. Please do not hesitate to contact myself or the trade association if you would like the picture put straight – as amusement is Very Much Alive, and very interesting.
Yours,
Kevin Williams
Director
KWP Limited
Play Value - Return of the Arcade
Dear Play-Value Team,
Great Job on re-dressing the previous feature on the 'death of arcade' - I know how hard it can be to be constructive after so much criticism, thank you for looking at the comments made and coming back with a informative and a great piece that gets close to the rebirth of arcade.
All the best, and lets hope ON Network thinks its worth covering the subject in more depth.
Kevin Williams KWP Limited (Owners of 'The Stinger Report' - leading amusement trade e-newsletter)
Play Value - The Death of Arcades
Well jgusw3, every arcade forum and fan site has been full of corrections and contradictions - I am sure your not that interested to wade through so why not go to this excellent collection of comments - http://arcadeheroes.com/2007/08/17/death-of-the-arcade-being-greatly-exaggerated/Play Value - The Death of Arcades
Interesting observations Splatterfan1988. I have a little more background on this whole sorry project. I have just read the 08/09/07 press announcement for the Play Value series (ON Networks Introduces Play Value: A Virtual Primer on the History & Relevance of Video Games), and it runs the original story before Mr. Blacks reversal. One piece of information garnered is the name of the cast and their credits: "...Indeed, the program’s cast list reads like a who’s who of the gaming business: Libe Goad, AOL Games Programming Director; T.J. Allard, Video Game Designer; Dan Ackerman, CNET Editor; Jeff Rubin, Collegehumor.com Managing Editor, Josh Shabtai, New Media Specialist at Ketchum PR and Shandi Sullivan, America’s Next Top Model finalist and popular New York City DJ." Well if thats a 'who's who' color me stupid and I think the word 'primer' will come back to haunt all involved. Also the press release did not mention 'Return of the Arcades' episode, favoring to build-up the death of arcade angle. This is very interesting and begs more questions. We really need to talk Mr. Black.Play Value - The Death of Arcades
Mr. Black, I am coming to these posts in reverse as I am in the middle of a feature and coming back to the forum when I suffer a mental block. My email is- "editor (at) thestingerreport (dot) com" -Please lets talk. All the best, Kevin Williams KWP (Owners of The Stinger Report)Play Value - The Death of Arcades
Dear Eugeneleyritz, I agree lets keep this on even terms. I agree that video amusement is a niche – but a niche of the much large AMUSEMENT industry. I actually work in the Out-of-Home interactive entertainment company that includes amusement, but also interactive attractions (Star Tours 2.0, etc), hospitality (Golden Tee, etc) and Serious Gaming. The Play Value research team had targeted amusement and said it was dead. Now we hear the Director/Producer meant - not dead, but returning - not Worldwide, but in America, - and now reports that in 9 episodes time there will be a video that contradicts all of what his presenters said at the end of this video? Though ON Networks must be loving this publicity, I bet they are smarting from the climb down (and the removal of the video off most web sites bar theirs) – seems my first observation below was proven correct! All the best, Kevin Williams KWP (Owners of The Stinger Report)Play Value - The Death of Arcades
Dear Jeremiah Black, Director/Producer of Play Value, Thank you for coming to the forum to address the growing criticism of the ‘Death of Arcades’. Though I greatly appreciate the explanation I have to say that the creation of the first in the episode of videos has laid you bare for a lot of complaint beyond just what toy left out! I understand the explanation of the limited time available, but some of the comments were fatuous and wrong no matter what you say you will do in the coming ‘Return of Arcades’ – how are you going to redress incorrect statements? Just some basic corrections to your comments – you have to be very careful how you calculate our industries ‘glory days’, if you mean 1984-5 then we are at sales and business currently of 15% reduction, if you mean 1990-1 we are 20% (please be careful of using statistical date – The Stinger Report depends on actual financial postings of the main factories to calculate so avoiding fatuous reporting [a good example is how most consumer media have forgotten mention that Sega and Namco sales in consumer is down, but amusement and operation is up!]) I am surprised that you cut all the stuff about Golden Tee and the bounce back of American gaming from first video but then managed to keep in some really stupid stuff like “…arcade games are only in some venues as nostalgic pieces?!” I have to say Mr. Black, I find it hard that this last episode really existed. Having worked on TV before I know that in the end the director of the production is the responsibility for shaping, while the Producer sets the tone what is produced and you must have seen you had compiled an attack rather than an argument for our future industry? (having these two rolls in one person may explain the collision in direction). I can see why there is a rush to promise an alternative video, but the damage in your researcher’s credibility has been done. Finally, I have to say that I feel that the coming Return of Arcade piece will have to work VERY hard to address the serious concern in the credibility of Play Value – I really hope you have got some industry input into the work. I also wonder how much of this next video is really in the can – you mention a number of times ‘...will be...’ includes in the Return video. I have to wonder if our pressure over your first episode is forcing you to create a back-tracking piece (and supplying free research in the bargain!) Hearing the number of caveats used regarding the first efforts fuels this thought – I just hope you get some authoritarian representation and look at possibly changing some of your presenters to address the appalling situation your team has got Play Value and ON Networks into (also if you use our information please attribute it)! Oh and in retrospect… yes you should have! Let’s be frank I work in the industry and will not have the time to wait 12 or even 9 episodes to see you address those mistake. What will happen is that people will see this as a divisive way to force people to endure your presenters – and I guess that when we see the 12 episode and find glaring errors we will be told, “…oh its too late to address those comments – we promise to address them when we do the next 12!” though the question would be if you get to do another series! Please email me directly if you want to discuss this further, I would love to get a better idea how this situation was created as our e-news service ‘The Stinger Report’ is considering following this debacle in a feature. All the best, Kevin Williams KWP (Owners of the Stinger Report)Play Value - The Death of Arcades
I would have thought so too doodah408 but I have been told that the research was done by someone else "with arcade knowledge"!!? Sounds like buck passing to me but I just want ON Networks to let me know if they are standing by the Play Value team or if they are going to pull the video and distance themselves from a flawed piece of work as some site have?Play Value - The Death of Arcades
For the record could we have the names and qualifications of the research and presenters at Play Value?Play Value - The Death of Arcades
(Having not received a reply to our email we have posed on the forum) Dear ON Networks, I would imagine that you have received a mountain of email regarding your latest video. As a member of the international amusement industry (and the Out-of-Home interactive entertainment sector), as well as a prolific writer on the amusement scene, I had to comment on your flawed creation - Play Value “The Death of Arcades” I will avoid a litany of item by item criticism that I am sure has already been undertaken by a number of web based reviewers, but will just focus on the critically ill judged product and research values of this production. If this is the quality of other projects supplied by the Play Value crew, then you have a serious problem on your hands. The amusement industry is calculated to have generated roughly $6.3billion last year globally, and has seen incredible business over the last few years – granted a depression hit in 1997 – the industry has grown from that point and has taken on a status where Electronic Arts, UbiSoft, Activision, Valve and Nintendo have worked on projects recently to release in amusement. The market has such players as Sega (recently announcing financial figures showing a growth on amusement business surpassing console business), Namco (recently merged with Bandai, and also reporting increased revenue in AM business), and Taito (having also merged recently – with Square, and again increased amusement business, oh and launched a arcade version of Half Life 2). Another of the Japanese leading manufacturers Konami just released an arcade version of their million selling Silent Hill consumer title, to support the super success of their BEMANI genre of titles. Before your ‘experts’ claim this is just a Japanese phenomenon we need to look at companies such as Global VR that has licensing agreements with Electronic Arts and UbiSoft to release amusement versions of their games. Or we can look at legendary arcade creator Eugene Jarvis and his successful new company Raw Thrills and their movie license driver success ‘The Fast and the Furious’. We can also look at other amusement releases on the international scene that sees arcades played in nearly every movie theatre and bowling complex, and the birth of a million dollar Family Entertainment Centre market. The success also has moved to the bars, with the Golden Tee and Big Buck Hunter sports bar tournament gaming scene that surpasses current Xbox LIVE Arcade prize levels. All sadly overlooked by your teams’ research. The importance of arcade with the players was also tragically and incompetently missed by your ‘experts’ – total ignorance of the massively important current contribution that ‘BEMANI’ via ‘BeatMania’ and ‘Dance Dance Revolution’ travelling from arcade to home. It is socially irresponsible to miss this that it makes me wonder if your gathered brains trust of researchers were not really up to the job, or just out of their depth to cover this subject (or worse). Glib comments about inability to play Sports Games in Aacade?!?!, or the totally wrong observation on what the Neo Geo failings were capped by the final statement that the only arcade machines in operation were retro museum pieces left for nostalgic purposes only. The money that Family Entertainment centre operators such as Chuck E.Cheese, Dave & Busters and Palace Entertainment have seen in recent years puts a lie to your ‘experts’ commentary, let alone the majority of the premise that they built their argument on. I think that your executive board should consider the ramifications of the Play Value piece. Though it will soon be forgotten, it would be a great opportunity to set the record straight about the health of the amusement sector. As players throw record breaking amounts into cashboxes for the latest ‘Virtua Fighter 5’, ‘Tekken 6’ and ‘Initial D 4’ it is important to actually report the facts of a market in transition rather than create a hotchpotch of vagaries, falsehood and pure incorrect statements. I for one who am proud of our industry would love to help. You will notice that I have cc’ed this email to the leading trade publications in America and Europe linked to the amusement sector. I have also supplied the head of the American Amusement Machine Association a copy of this mail – and I am proposing to pass on this email to the industry trade e-Newsletter The Stinger Report towards writing a feature on this ‘interesting’ commentary. Just before your ‘experts’ attempt to deride my credential to criticize their work – I am not only a guest feature writer for the trade publications ‘RePlay’, ‘Vending Times’, ‘Tourist Attraction and Parks’, and ‘EuroSlot’ along with arcade feature contributor to the web site SPOnG.com and founder of the amusement e-news service The Stinger Report. I have been in amusement since 1985 and am an ex-Imagineer for Walt Disney, with other extensive jobs in development, manufacturer and sales in Public Space gaming; just for the record. Finally, my experience is that if ‘you don’t know something – ask someone who dose!’ I think it was very short sighted both to call dead an industry that is clearly not, and to use individuals that along with using the word ‘basically’ way too often, showed a limitation of experience or knowledge that will hold the Play Vale series and the ON Network up for derision across the web. Please do not hesitate to contact myself or the trade association if you would like the picture put straight – as amusement is Very Much Alive, and very interesting. Yours, Kevin Williams Director KWP Limited